2012 Arizona Senate debate: on Immigration

Jeff Flake: Revamp guest-worker programs; it fails our needs

Carmona said comprehensive immigration reform should include visas, day-worker programs "that don't impede commerce but actually enhance commerce." They both agreed that border security needs to be stepped up..

Richard Carmona: Comprehensive immigration reform ties into the economy

Carmona said immigration reform will help boost commerce. "It's an important thing, because without comprehensive immigration reform, comprehensive tax reform, our small businesses are going to continue to suffer," Carmona said.

Richard Carmona: More visas for day-workers to enhance commerce

Carmona said comprehensive immigration reform should include visas, day-worker programs "that don't impede commerce but actually enhance commerce." They both agreed that border security needs to be stepped up..

Jeff Flake: Replicate operational security from Yuma Sector

A: On the border, we have now--and have had for a couple of years--operational security in the Yuma Sector. If we can just get the Tucson Sector to look like the Yuma Sector, then we have some political space where people will say, alright, let's solve the other attendant issue--employer-enforcement issues, some mechanism to deal with those who are here illegally now, some robust temporary-worker plan that can account for the labor needs we have, particularly in the ag sector, and then some way to deal with those issues like kids who were brought here when they were 2 years old and can't finish school. Those are all issues we're going to have to deal with. But I can tell you, it's a dead end until we can get better border security. Until then, we're just not going to get there.

Q: What does "there" look like?

A: It looks like the Yuma Sector. If somebody crosses illegally, we have a reasonable expectation of catching them.

Richard Carmona: Dynamic interdiction plus prevention

A: There are too many important issues that we have to deal with as a state and as a nation to be bickering about who's to blame for this. There are simple ways to solve this problem if we will allow the politics to be left at the door.

Q: You said it starts with a secure border. Explain that.

A: A secure border is really a dynamic concept. If you looked at the concept of a secure border 20 years ago, it was boots on the ground. As we've evolved we have sensors, we have electronic surveillances, we have drones, we have human intelligence working both sides of the border. So it's a lot more complex and layered system that protects our nation. So, do I know what will be best in five or 10 years? No, but I know that as long as there is demand to come here or to bring drugs in, people will always try to counteract our defense mechanism. The other side is, of course, prevention. It just can't be interdiction, it has to be prevention as well.

Jeff Flake: Secure the border; then comprehensive reform

A: We have to have comprehensive reform. But those of us who have pursued it have realized that that is a dead-end. We have beat our heads against the wall for a long time. And until we have a more secure border, nobody's going to trust the federal government to move on with the other elements of comprehensive reform.

Q: What about opposition among many Latinos to S.B. 1070?

A: Well, one thing I can tell you is Arizonans are incensed when the president tries to sue the state for trying to do the job that the federal government just won't do. But it's not just rounding up those who are illegal that's the issue; that hasn't been the problem. It's what do you do when you've got them. What do you do to have a humane but effective policy to adjudicate the cases that are already here. And that's the bigger issue.

Jeff Flake: SB1070 was imprudent & unconstitutional, but let it stand

A: Well, I was at the federal level when it was passed here. And I made comments when it was initially passed--the first version that they put out had some language that could be construed as unconstitutional, certainly. And I said at that time that that was imprudent. And then, the legislature went back in and removed that offending provision. But I've just never been able to get excited about SB 1070, because I've known that that hasn't been the issue. We're able to find those who are here illegally easily enough. It's, what do you do when you've got them?

Q: What action should the Supreme Court take on S.B. 1070?

A: I hope they let it stand. I think all Arizonans are incensed when the federal government tries to sue the state for doing what they simply failed to do. So, I hope they let it stand, but when they do, they'll quickly realize that that was not the issue. The bigger issue is what do you do with a population that's already here?

Richard Carmona: Vitriolic 'deport everybody' message loses Hispanics

Carmona had some blunt criticism for Republicans on the topic of illegal immigration. "Why do you think they're reworking their initial vitriolic, far-right, 'deport everybody' message?" he asked. "Why? Do you think that all of a sudden there's an epiphany and their hearts have opened up to people who are struggling? I don't think so. I think it's a political calculation--that they recognized they cannot win their races and stay in office unless they embrace the Hispanic community. So, I really feel it's very disingenuous."

The original DREAM Act would grant young people who were brought illegally to the US as children a path to citizenship provided that they attend college or serve in the military. Rubio's plan would provide not a path to citizenship but rather non-immigrant visas.